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Police baffled by deadly rampage of a ‘normal, unstressed’ student
Steve Kazmeirczak, the gunman, shown in a high school yearbook from 1998
(Jim Killam/AP)
Rescue workers carry an unidentified victim from the lecture hall at the university in DeKalb, Illinois, yesterday
Maria Santana was reported to be in a critical condition after the shooting on the Northern Illinois University campus
( Kate Weber/AP )
A man is treated for injuries on the campus
(John Gress/Reuters)
FBI agents work beside a shattered window at the scene of the shooting
(Craig Watson/AP)
An officer leads a woman from the lecture hall at Northern Illinois University
The gunman who carried out America’s latest college massacre was identified last night as Stephen Kazmierczak, 27, a “normal, unstressed” award-winning graduate student who returned to his former university on Valentine’s Day to shoot 22 students in 90 seconds. He killed five of them before turning a weapon on himself.
“There were no red flags,” said Donald Grady, chief of campus police at DeKalb’s Northern Illinois University, where the massacre took place. “He was an outstanding student, an awarded student, someone who was revered by students and staff. We have found no note at this time and we have no idea what the motive is.”
Kazmierczak came armed with four weapons, including a pump-action Remington 12-gauge shotgun and a 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistol he had bought five days before the massacre. He kicked in an emergency exit door of a lecture hall packed with more than 100 students and, dressed all in black with a dark woollen hat, opened fire immediately from a stage at the front of the room.
Witnesses said he had a blank stare on his face and said nothing as he began his rampage at 3.06pm with the shotgun blasting from his hip. “A lot of people were screaming. It was just complete chaos,” said Zach Seward, who was sitting in the Cole Hall lecture theatre. Many ran for the doors, covered in victims’ blood as the shooting continued.
Lauren Carr, sitting in the third row, said: “I heard this girl scream, ‘Run, he’s reloading the gun!’ ” One and a half minutes later 48 pistol casings and six shotgun cartridges lay on the floor, four students were dead – another died later in hospital – and 16 others were sprawled out, many with wounds to the head and chest.
Kazmierczak lay lifeless on the stage, having turned a gun on himself.
Chief Grady said the gunman, a sociology graduate of the university who won the Dean’s Award for his academic work, had been on medication but had recently stopped taking it. He refused to say what the medication was.
According to people close to Kazmierczak he “had become somewhat erratic in the past couple of weeks”.
The gunman’s father, Robert Kazmierczak, briefly came out of his house in Lakeland, Florida, to talk to reporters. “Please leave me alone. This is a very hard time for me,” he said as he threw his arms up and wept. Mr Kazmierczak moved with his son’s mother to Florida in 2004. She died, aged 58, in September 2006, from ALS, a form of motor neuron disease.
Kazmierczak’s rampage is the fifth shooting at an American college or school in the past seven days and comes ten months after the massacre at Virginia Tech university, when a student there – an awkward misfit – killed 32 people.
Police are investigating whether the date of the shootings – Valentine’s Day – was relevant, and if he had been recently jilted. Chief Grady said he knew of no personal relationships between the gunman and the students in the lecture hall. On December 10 the university was shut down after racist graffiti appeared in a bathroom, with a reference to the Virginia Tech massacre. Chief Grady said no link to that had been found.
Kazmierczak carried out postgraduate work at his alma mater in spring last year, and had been pursuing a masters degree in sociology at the University of Illinois in nearby Urbana-Champaign. In February 2006 he co-authored a paper on self-mutilation among prisoners, entitled Self-injury in Correctional Settings: “Pathology” of Prisoners or of Prisons?, and was honoured with the annual Dean’s Award that summer.
According to the academic paper, he was interested in “corrections, political violence, and peace and social justice”. He had also served as vice-president of the Academic Criminal Justice Association chapter at the university, a group that aims to “promote knowledge and understanding of all areas of the criminal justice system”.
“You are just kind of surprised that you could even know someone involved in something like this,” said Kathleen Klages, of Harvard, who is a distant relative of Kazmierczak.
Shortly before 3pm on Thursday, Kazmierczak drove his car and parked it near the lecture hall. He carried his ebony Remington shotgun in a guitar case. He wore a dark coat, covering an ammunition belt and his three pistols – the 9mm Glock, another 9mm pistol and a 380mm Highpoint pistol. He had bought the first two weapons legally at a gun dealership in nearby Champaign on February 9. Police said that they were trying to trace the ownership of the other two guns.
The victims were Ryanne Mace, 19; Gayle Dubowski, Catalina Garcia and Daniel Parmenter, all of whom were aged 20; and Julianna Gehant, 32.
Illinois, the home state of Barack Obama, the Democratic presidential candidate, has experienced a surge in gun crime. Mr Obama said in response to the shooting that the country must do “whatever it takes” to eradicate gun violence. He said that he had spoken to Northern Illinois University’s president yesterday morning by phone and offered whatever help his Senate office could provide.
He spoke while campaigning in neighbouring Wisconsin. “I think there is an individual right to bear arms, but it’s subject to commonsense regulation; like background checks,” he said during a news conference.
Life and times
1980 Steven Kazmierczak born, grows up in Elk Grove Village
1998 Graduates from Elk Grove High School, enrols in sociology department at Northern Illinois University
Feb 2006 Co-authors sociology paper entitled “Self-injury in correctional settings: pathology of prisons or of prisoners?”, establishing himself as an authority on prison conditions
Sept 2006 Kazmierczak’s mother dies of Lou Gehrig’s disease
2006 Graduates after receiving the Dean’s Award for his work in the sociology department
Spring 2007 Reenrols for graduate work at the School of Social Work at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Feb 2008 Kazmierczak shoots dead five students
— There have been five shootings in US schools and universities in the past few days. They include a nursing student in Louisiana who shot two students and herself, and a 17-year-old who shot dead another student in gym class
— A massacre last week at a city hall meeting in Kirkwood, Missouri, left five people dead
— In 2005-06 there were 14,300 incidents of children disciplined for using or possessing a firearm or explosive device
— Two thirds of homicide victims in the US are killed with firearms
— There are about 11,000 firearms-related deaths in the US annually – more occur in two days than the UK records in a year
Source: US Department of Justice, CNN, agencies, Harvard University
Have your say
o: Kim Righetti, Upland, Calif. USA---
Perhaps if it weren't for people like you contributing to the stigma of mental illness, more people would be unashamed to seek the help they need. Not all people diagnosed with mental illness are violent. And not everyone who seeks the expertise of a psychiatrist is diagnosed with a mental illness. I believe that this country needs to get over the shame and fear associated with mental illness. We need to implement more psychological screenings for children and adults. We need better healthcare so that people who need antipsychotic drugs don't have to pay over $1,000 a month for their prescriptions. School shootings are becoming increasingly prevalent in the US. Is it because we have a larger population of individuals with mental illness? No. Mental illness is seen worldwide. It is our lack of gun control that sets us apart from the rest of the world. And of course our narrowmindedness.
Tina, Charleston, SC, USA
Hey Corriveau from Canada-
The Virginia Tech. killer looked more Korean than white to me...ahhh-perhaps maybe I just need glasses?
I am all for the USA banning guns, but to discuss racial disparity in the context of this article is simply ignorant. Clearly mental illness is the US would be more appropriate...
Renee, Woodbury, USA, MN
Anyone who has ever set foot in a psychiatrist's office should be banned from owning any kind of firearm. These shooters are all mentally ill or coming off of medication. End of story.
Kim Righetti, Upland, Calif. USA A gunman killed five students in a Northern Illinois University lecture hall before shooting himself Thursday afternoon. Many more were wounded: Aside from the perpetrator, Northern Illinois reported 21 victims in all. The tragedy reemphasizes the intense focus on emergency response and communications systems that emerged after the April shootings at Virginia Tech University, experts said Thursday. But, President John Peters said in a press event, “I don’t know if any plan can prevent this kind of tragedy.” Officials said Thursday that shortly after 3 p.m. the shooter, dressed in black, emerged from behind a screen in the front of the classroom, and opened fire. Northern Illinois identified the shooter as a former graduate student in sociology who was enrolled in the university in spring 2007 but no longer is. (The Chicago Tribune said it had identified the shooter, but wasn’t naming him pending formal identification of his body, and that he was enrolled in a graduate program in social work at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, and that he had won a dean’s award at Northern Illinois two years ago for work he did on prison systems.) He carried one shotgun and two handguns. Four of those killed were female; one was a male. Among those wounded was the instructor of the geology class, a graduate teaching assistant who related his account of the shootings to the Chicago Sun-Times. Eric Rood, a Northern Illinois senior and copy desk chief at Northern Star, the student newspaper, said students in the newsroom and elsewhere were “glued to the TV” Thursday watching coverage of the shooting. “There’s definitely a lot of shock,” he said. “No one’s quite sure what to make of this.” Hours earlier, Rood was in another building on campus, waiting outside a classroom when a student who was in the room where the shooting occurred ran by him and several other students. Alarmed by the commotion, they took out their cell phones and soon found out what had happened, Rood said. Along with dozens of other students, Rood took temporary shelter in an empty lecture hall. “People were confused,” he said. “Mostly they just wanted to get out to see if their friends were OK.” The shooting comes less than a week after a student at Louisiana Technical College’s Baton Rouge campus shot and killed two other female students and then killed herself. About 20 students were in the classroom at the time. The investigation into the double murder and suicide is ongoing, and Baton Rouge Police say they haven’t uncovered a motive and have found no connections between the suspect and victims that would help understand why they were targeted. Thursday’s events at Northern Illinois also come at a time when Virginia Tech officials are considering how to honor students who died in last April’s massacre there. Amie Steele, editor of the Collegiate Times, Virginia Tech’s student newspaper, said watching coverage of another college shooting was “peculiar” and “like deja vu all over again.” Students throughout the student center, where the newsroom is located, were “staring in disbelief,” she added. “I think this will be a trigger for students,” Steele said. “It’s spring semester. We’re already treading on thin ice, because students are starting to think about April, and it’s been a topic on how to approach the one-year anniversary.... Seeing snow on the ground will trigger an emotional response from some students” (reminding them of the wintry day of the Virginia Tech shooting.) Steele said she contacted a student she knows who worked at the Northern Illinois newspaper to provide words of wisdom about how to respond to and cover a tragedy. Likewise, Charles W. Steger, president of Virginia Tech, wrote a message to Peters, offering empathy and help. Steger also addressed a note to his own campus reminding students and employees of a 24-hour counseling hotline. “[The president] is trying to quell any queasiness that people might have,” said Larry Hincker, a Virginia Tech spokesman. “I know this will bring back memories of the trauma here.” As they did after April’s shootings, several campus security and risk management experts weighed in Thursday on the national implications. “Institutions face challenges in terms of reducing their vulnerability to random acts of violence. Things like perimeter security and weapons checks at doors are just not feasible and it’s not the kind of environment that campuses want to create,” said Ann H. Franke, who, as a lawyer and president of Wise Results, advises colleges on risk management. “The focus on emergency notification systems has been robust since the April Virginia Tech shootings. There are ongoing questions about the use of these types of systems — for what kinds of emergencies, who sends out the messages. I think it’s very important for institutions to continue to focus on those kinds of issues.” Daniel Carter, senior vice president for the nonprofit organization, Security On Campus, added Thursday evening that from all of the information then available, it appeared that Northern Illinois’s emergency warning and response system had worked. Northern Illinois’s president had said that the Web site, e-mail, voicemail, crisis hotline, media, and alarm systems were all used to notify students. The first campus warning, he said, went out within 20 minutes (at 3:20 p.m.). Police reported that they responded to the scene within two minutes. “This reinforces — in part basically through its success from what we’ve seen — the importance of having a multidisciplinary emergency response in place and having a multi-channel warning system in place,” Carter said. (By “multidisciplinary” he meant having many different components and entities involved.) He noted, in particular, that Northern Illinois used a public address system — something Security On Campus recommends be part of the communications strategy but which many colleges don’t have because of the investment in infrastructure needed — but added that Northern Illinois’s response would have been even stronger had text messaging also been a component of its notification system. “The story at the moment just demonstrates that a university is an open community and that irrational acts by individuals can occur at any time,” said Sheldon E. Steinbach, a lawyer in the higher education practice at the Washington firm Dow Lohnes. “People often make it look like schools are oblivious to the security of their broader community and that’s just not true. It is impossible without turning the campus into a police state to secure it any further than it already is.” Authorities said Thursday that they did not know of any connection between Thursday’s shootings and a security scare toward the end of the fall semester. In December, Northern Illinois shut down for a day after threatening graffiti, which referenced Virginia Tech, appeared in a residence hall. In a December 11 letter to students and colleagues, President Peters shared some reflections on the incident. “Like so many of our students at NIU, I was a first-generation college student. The awe I felt the first time I stepped on a university campus has never left me. I see that same awe in the faces of every new student I meet, and I bask in the reflected pride of every graduate who walks across the stage at commencement. The great tradition of American public higher education is preparation of citizens who will live in and perpetuate a free, open and diverse society, and to be part of that important tradition is a source of unending pride. Events of the past several days cause me much distress because they are so contrary to the standards and commitments of this institution and of American higher education.” — Elia Powers and Elizabeth Redden
6 Killed in Northern Illinois Shooting
Just wondered if anyone knew the exact annual figure of people killed by guns in the UK? I'm pretty sure it's very high as a percentage out of 60 million. America is 300 million to give an idea of proportion.
I just think there are so many incidents that should simply not be happening to innocent people here in the UK but they are ignored because of so many hypocritical manipulations by conflicting groups of people. When yet another cult, high school killing spree occurs I feel it gives even more excuse to ignore the problems in this country and transferr onto the US to make us feel better. Sad. I feel this World is in total reverse.
Very depressed.
E J, London, UK
Alan in London,
Your figures for gun crime in the UK are from 6 and 7 years ago. The rate of gun and knife related murders on innocent people has multiplied greatly since then. I can't tell you how many crime scenes I've walked past in Camden and Kentish Town where the incident was fatal in the last 3 years. Very frightening and even more disturbing that people seem to be so de-sensitized to it that they simply don't care.
We really are not much better than the US in terms of crime. Also, we are a tiny country and the chances of escaping from these kind of incidents is much more reduced than the US which is huge in comparison and therefore more spread out geographically.
E J, London, UK
It's easy to explain why we need the guns in the US. We need guns because there a lot of people here who will break into your house and rob, rape, or murder you. By the time you call the police, it will be too late. Maybe you don't have the same problems over in Europe, but here we do.
Claudia, Atlanta, USA
Quote: According to the racist attitudes, it is not newsworthy - let them just kill themselves. It is not that they dont happen, its that white people dont care!
US rascist - never, its the land of the free (white, Christian preferably Protestant)
Timur, London,
Obama has just blown it as far as I'm concerned by his explicit support for the rights of Americans to possess guns. He's quoted as stating, “I think there is an individual right to bear arms, but it’s subject to common sense regulation; like background checks".
Really! Such criteria fully qualified the student killer to own a gun before committing the murders. No point in banning a gun after the facts.
I would have supported Obama in the presidential election. Regrettably, that quote indicates that he's no better than the cowboy occupying the post at the moment. Shame, I had great hopes for fundamental changes for the better in supporting Obama.
Edward Willhoft, Epsom, UK
Could somebody explain the need for somebody who is not in law enforcement or the military to have a gun?
I understand that there is a Consitutional right to bear arms but that merely explains why there is the greater availability of guns in the United States and not why civilians need a gun.
I do not deny that there are problems with violent crime in other parts of the world. Here in the UK it is becoming a prevalent problem. However we have strict gun control here and very few shootings. The violent crime we do have amounts to stabbings and violent assaults - and horrific as these crimes are, a perpetrator can only assault one person at a time using a knife or his fist. The use of a gun allows for many more casualties as demonstrated in the school massacres
I acknowledge that there are many more factors to consider (too many to list here) but i believe if you removed the means then you would reduce the risk tenfold.
Sarah, Sheffield,
The right to bear arms is supposedly to protect citizens from government.
But who is going to protect citizens from citizens?
Robin Bather, Metepec, Mexico
FOR Corriveau, Quebec, Canada - are you completely naive?
The only stories reoprted in the press are of white killing whites. No one cares about black killings. According to the racist attitudes, it is not newsworthy - let them just kill themselves. It is not that they dont happen, its that white people dont care!
Douglas Fur, Nutwood, USA
It amazes me how many Americans write in to defend their insane gun culture.
In an average year, Americans shoot ten times as many Americans as bin Laden and all his terrorists have killed in their entire lives.
Is the NRA financed by bin Laden?
Dave Morgan, Portree, United Kingdom
You're all missing the point:
1.WHY THE AWARD WINNING STUDENT WAS PERSCRIBED PSYCHOTROPIC MEDICINE?
2.WHY IS PERSON ON PSYCHOTROPIC MEDICINE IS ALOUD TO BUY A GUN?
And of course the newspapers are not aloud to name the antidepressant he was taking - the pharmasuticals magnats know how to protect themselfs!
victoria smirnoff, London, UK
Regardless of how many school shootings there are, myself and millions of other Americans will fight and die for the right to bear arms. And its NOT because we don't care about our children. We don't expect or need the world to understand. Keep pointing fingers all you like.
Matt, Texas, USA
I live here in the gun toting U.S.A. and I ain't skeered. There is, however, no excuse for this man's behavior and that includes being off or on some sort of drug, prescribed or illegal.
Remember, it's not guns that kill only, but also knives, fists, clubs, rocks and other sorts of weapons wielded by people venting some sort of rage.
I'll wager that in his case, it was because he was thrown over by a lady friend.
Yank, Warrenton , Missouri
Corriveau from Canada, if he had been a Muslim...what would the comments from the USA have looked like?
Indiscriminate killing - that terrorism to me.
Timur, London,
Eveyone in the U.S should be provided with sub-machine gun's, if they want them. I'm glad we're not that crazy here in the UK.
jayil, london, uk
Isn't it strange that all those killing were done by white people on white people ?
Corriveau, Quebec, Canada
SSRI Stories maybe this could help baffeled repeaterlist or news repeater im not baffled
google it
Antidepressant Nightmares
http://www.ssristories.com/index.html
This website is a collection of 2100+ news stories with the full media article available, mainly criminal in nature, that have appeared in the media (newspapers, TV, scientific journals) or that were part of FDA testimony in either 1991, 2004 or 2006, in which antidepressants are mentioned.
andy h, manchester/vancouver, u k /canada
The police are baffled? I'm not. He was angry, he had access to guns, he killed. Take away the access and he wouldn't have killed so easily. Simple.
I really cannot believe that American's are so stupid as to not see this.
kim, london,
The USA should wake up and ban the public ownership of guns like we have in Britain.
Mabon Dane, Haverhill, UK
This is ridicoulous! America can not continue have all sorts of firearms sold freely and easlily, in most cases legally, as in this case, and continue to regard itself as a civilised nation!
If America can not distinguish between the sale of a pound of tomato and that of a deadly firearm, then USA is not a civilised country!
period!
LEVENT, IZMIR, TURKEY
It is reassuring to read comments from some Americans who are against widespread gun ownership.
It is disturrbing that others do not see the logic in the fact that if something is not available - it cannot be used.
I would agree that to a certain extent that it is a matter attitude and intent ..
Quite.. from a European perspective, there seems to be an automatic response of extreme violence to solve a problem .. literally 'over kill' .. as in carpet bombing.. collateral damage.. 'friendly fire' ..
Many of us who used to look to the United States as the promoter of democracy and freedom become increasingly disillusioned as we become increasingly well informed.
While the constitutional right to bear arms seems outdated hogwash to some of us, without widespread gun ownership immigrants would not have been able to wipe out native Americans who tried to defend their property and way of life.
Americans value individual freedom..including to be exploited..starve..be killed.
Bootbear, Bedford, England
There is no easy answer to such social problems as that which has just occurred at Northern Illenois University. Such problems must be attacked from all angles that can be identified. Yet even in the context of continuing violence with the use of firearms, you still get people responding with the "right to bear firearms." argument. Do not people like Barack Obama not realize that such attitudes come directly from the frontier of the 19th century. To non-Americans the attitude is silly, senseless and barbaric. How can a people who have built the most powerful nation the world has ever known continue to profess such blatent immaturity?
Melvin Piercey, Brigus, Canada
For Gene, ST Charles, Mo.
These are the best figures I could get for actual firearms damage in the UK;
Firearms were used in 73 homicides in 2004/05;
412 firearm offences resulted in serious injury in 2004/05.
That's just under 10 per week!
As to the RATE OF GUN DEATHS (i.e. adjusted for population) my figures, dating from 2001/2002, are:
Homicide: USA 4 per 100,000; England & Wales 0.15 per 100,000. Result USA out-murders E & W by a factor of 27.
Suicides : USA 6 per 100,000; E & W 0.2 per 100,000. Result USA outkills England & Wales by a factor of 30.
Other (inc accidents): USA 0.36 per 100,000; E & W 0.03 per 100,000. Result USA outkills E & W by a factor of 12.
The last one is telling because it eliminates the mindset of the "volunteer killer".
I conclude high ownership of guns leads to high death rates, which may not be especially perceptive. But I sincerely wonder why so many Americans want their fellow countrymen dead in such numbers. Constitutional purity? Surely not.
Alan, London,
Solving "problems" with the gun is ingrained in the US culture - an inherently aggressive and violent society - sometimes it comes home to roost, most of the time foreign countries feel the pinch!
Timur, London,
Guns have always been readily available in the USA; why all the killings now? Think. What is missing in society now, when gun regulation is actually tougher, than in prior decades. As a Country we are not very old yet in recent decades there has been a major shift in societal standards in USA. Quit trying to analyze the symptoms and give a 30 min. sitcom answer and start trying to determine the disease. We all know the answer; no one wants to state it for fear they are going to have to admit humans require more than "political correctness" to meet the needs of it's citizens. Think.
V.Doty, Columbia, SC USA via China
I have resolved to say nothing more about such incidents. It just seems like telling a drug addict to stop in a house full of heroin. And if you get exasperated at the situation you begin to sound callous. Nothing it seems will ever change and we can only conclude this is the way the US wants it. Seems crazy to outsiders but anyways.....
Phil, Hong Kong,
americans`s just don`t get the fact that lots of guns in general circulation means that these things are going to keep happening. The arguement that 99.99% of guns are never used to kill anyone and are legally held, does not justify keeping them. What do people in the centre of a big town or city do with there guns? what`s the rational for keeping them? I would just like them to understand that europe does not have this problem.
If a european university student has a problem with something or someone the worst he/she can do is attack someone with a knife or baseball bat (which can kill). But they cannot kill six people in a lecture threatre. America needs a few sensible politican`s to make a stand for what is right.
keith lowry, belfast, northern ireland
There is so much gun crime because you can buy a gun as easily as buying a pint of milk. Imagine the scene in Britain if guns were as easily accessible...
Kathryn Jordan, Abergavenny,
if you take guns away.
it really wont solve anything.
after all it the person who does the act?
i'd be willing to bet that this crazy person who killed those people, didn't have a gun.
he would have stilled killed someone that day.
if not a gun, then a knife, or a bomb.
bruce, charlotte, north carolina
On Aug 26, 2007 times on line ran an article titled (Ministers cover up gun crime ) in the article it used stats for 2005-2006
which said there was more than 10 killed or injured in gun crimes per day in the UK. Whats true?
Gene, ST Charles, Mo.
I hope the victims' families take a moment to think about how the families of those Iraqis killed by carpet-bombings feel.
John Taylor, Sydney,
Sacrificed on the Altar of Gun empowerment, sadly fuelled by illiberal right wingers and gun profiteers. Ethical investing is one way to stop the tide, also remember which way to vote, or at least lobby your congressmen.
Elwin parsley, london , UK
Ernest, in all due respect, it has nothing to do with what 'popular entertainment' teaches the masses. The same programs are displayed in every western society throughout the world - all these movies, TV shows, music videos etc that people use as a tool to explain why such horrors and atrocities occur - is just an excuse. Simple as this - remove the weapons that kill.
My 11 year old son drives my suburu around the property - i can trust him and he is as capable under 'normal' day to day conditions as others i have seen on the road. However, given the wrong conditions - be it through a change in psyche, the introduction of drugs or other conditions - he becomes a leathal weapon. Take the vehicle away and there is no chance my son can do damage to himself or others.
The answer is simple.
If the US truely loves its own people, family, they would remove the one thing that kills.
.. and I hope this is the biggest wakeup call of all!!
Scott
Scott Merriman, Adelaide, SA
Before I say anything else, let me state that I'm not necessarily on EITHER side of the gun debate. I do, however, want to point out some things to BOTH sides.
1. Convenience/opportunity is a huge motivater for crime. For instance, if you leave your car window down and your purse or wallet on the seat, a theif could very easily take it. Not saying that that same person would be one to commit a violent crime or even break into something to steal. That being said, if someone is truly determined to commit a crime...they'll find a way.
2. The severity of the damage would be different if, say the gunman in this case, only had a knife or if he had a bomb it could've been worse. The same damage of a machine gun would be hard to repeat in the same time frame if the guy only had a knife. But again, if he was truly determined to commit the crime with whatever firearm he wanted, he could've done so illegally if necessary inspite of any firearm laws the US does or does not have.
Rachel, Kaiserslautern, Germany (via USA)
You reap what you sow - this stuff is unheard of in India where more than a billion people live; without widespread and easy access to GUNS.
vidyadhar, hamilton, canada
This is the clear result of having guns readily available to anyone. If all countries of the world have that great American freedom, schools and colleges would be bloody battelefields, and such daily incedents would be no news as it is turning to be in the US. Who would not have killed many people in his/her lifetime had he or she such easy access to guns?
sam, Dubai, UAE
the surprise here is that American's are surprised at these types of happenings anymore. They have been happening so frequently for years now.
The reason they happen is without a doubt the freely available guns.
Imagine the young man who has been jilted by his girlfriend, full of rage and hatred. Now imagine him having a gun hidden in the house, i've no doubt his parents had one or two round the place.
Now imagine the same young man without access to a gun because they are against the law. He would be full of rage and hatred but the more he thought about it the more he would calm down until he was ready to face the world again without having killed anyone.
America, you have created this monster and you are still creating it. It's no good shaking your heads and asking yourselves 'why'?
Kim, London,
American popular entertainment teaches the masses that guns & shooting solve problems. Art works that use fantasy to probe reality are comparatively few, yet even they are much enamored of violent themes. A chronic frustration & deep unhappiness seduce the masses who find violence entertaining. We drift ever further from changing America's work ethic, changing the distribution of income, changing our way of life. The violent imagination is rampant.
Ernest Werner, Trumansburg NY , USA
What? Not more students killed in a school shooting? Let me guess...wasn't America by any chance was it? Oh, it was. Yeh, probably something to do with all those guns. Just a guess.
Andrew Duncan, Godalming, UK
A woman teacher was shot ...
A woman shot and killed ...
A 17-year-old is accused of shooting ...
shot in the head by a fellow student ...
A gunman kills five and wounds 16 ...
Is it time to reword the 2nd amendment?
The utter waste of lives because some are in love with the misguided idea that a militia is the only thing protecting us from a dictatorship needs work.
Stephen Gunther, San Fernando Valley , Southern California
So we have a new Valentine's Day Massacre, I'm sure this guy would have known about the infamous first one, is all this about being famous through death, I think so, terrible but, he's now famous
Ross, Greystones,
America, the envy of the world.
Roger, Colorado Springs, CO
You know what the response will be from the gun lobbyists
All students should carry guns to protect themselves in such instances.
I heard a well know radio host say things on exactly those lines after the Omaha shootings.
Al, Omaha, NE
So the theory of unpredictability in psychologicaly unstable patients is found to be wanting here - I wonder if the inaliable citizens' right to bear arms and the NRA is anything to do with it - if we wish to avoid the Kutb or Al Quida theory of the world that is.
Nicholas Xenakis, Borough, London, England
GM, Brisbane, when you quote a statistic, please break it down.... 30,000 gun deaths in 2004
16,750 suicides (56% of all U.S gun deaths),
11,624 homicides (40% of all U.S gun deaths),
649 unintentional shootings, 311 from legal intervention and 235 from undetermined intent (4% of all U.S gun deaths combined).
By the way in the same year, England had 185
Saien, FL, USA
The common denominator to these shootings is that the perpatrator is or recently has been on psychotropic medications. Read the side effects of these: Homicidal ideation, suicidal ideation, anxiety, etc. The data is available to all but ignored by most. These shootings did not start with the availability of guns, but with the increased use of psychotropic drugs to handle the problems of normal life.
Mary, Chicago, IL
Constitutional right to bear arms - is it worth it?
Nicola, Lancaster,
How many american lives will it take to realise that there is no good reason for people to bear arms in america. It may be in the constitution but it is not ethical in this day and age.
(Not American by the way)
Martin, Aberdeen, Scotland
Why should Russia or anyone else worry about America - we will kill ourselves before we get to them. What a great country.
Rich, San Angelo, USA
I feel bad for the things , i feel that security measures to be implemented in all school and colleges all over US
Krishna , Hyderabad, India
This is ridiculous......
nitin, Hassan, India
Injury by weapons in assaults that are not firearms is much more common in the UK relative to population than in the US. Also property crime is worse in the UK. Much worse if you take out highly urban areas from the equation. YOB violence has no parallel in this country when it comes to killing innocent folk who ask drunk louts to keep te noise down and get their heads kicked in for their bother.
James, Bellingham, USA/WA
W. LaPierre, I am afraid that you are wrong in your assumptions that Britain and Australia are "victims of a rising tide of gun violence" and wonder where you get this information from?. Whenever anyone is killed by a gun in the UK it makes headline news it is such a rare a shocking event, it the US It seems there needs to be at least 5 people killed or it to even make the news.
Facts:
In 2005 there were 30,000 deaths caused by guns in the USA, with a population of 300 million that is a very scary figure.
During the same year in England and Wales, population of around 53 million, there were 50 recorded homicides caused by guns.
So please explain how despite the lack of a legal way to buy automatic handguns and machine guns the UK is suffering a rising tide in gun related violence?
Oh, and by the way. Your constitution does not give anyone the right to own guns. It gives the American people the right to bare arms to defend the nation. Not to massacre school children.
GM, Brisbane,
As usual on these tragic occasions we have a plethora of pompous comments ( liberally laced with humbug and schadenfraude ) from Europeans and Canadians extolling themselves and lambasting America. One of the reasons I left the UK was the appalling and ever-increasing violence and criminality, in the face of which ordinary citizens are becoming ever more helpless, deprived both of protection from the police
and of the means or even the legal right to defend themselves. The gun control laws in Britain are purely symbolic and serve only to ensure that the villains enjoy exclusive possession of firearms while the law-abiding are left defenceless. In fact, if only one student at Virginia Tec or Illinois had been carrying a weapon on the fateful day many lives might have been saved. Gun crime is rampant on the streets of Britain and there is no call whatsover for complacency or superiority from that quarter.
Chris Russon, Davao, Philippines
THE GUN made me do it. The car made me do it. The knife made me do it. The club made me do it. The booze made me do it. The drugs made me do it. My dog told me to do it. God told me to do it. PMS made me do it. The hammer made me do it..............Thats a lot of thing to ban, or blame. After all, we all know that people aren't responsible......right?
m.J., Iowa, U.S.A.
The gun issue is a red herring. The real "smoking gun" is the medication he was on and apparently stopped taking. Message: let's medicate students so they won't shoot us. Inspect each of the these college shootings in the US and you will find anti-psychotics and anti-depressants in every case. These drugs are the real danger. They make killers and suicides out of otherwise ordinary people.
Cavaner, Johannesburg, South Africa
I’ve said my piece on here, not understanding and disapproving of the gun culture in the US, but in the end I and my fellow Europeans have to accept that it’s up to Americans to decide what is acceptable in their own country.
Some churlish people would say that America in return should not try to impose its values on others.
We do have a right however to comment on American foreign policy, because that directly affects us. But that is for another thread.
Nick M, St Ouen, France
Joe. I just heard an Israeli being interviewed on the radio yesterday and he talked about the numerous terrorist acts that have been stopped in Israel by ordinary citizens who were armed. He was promoting allowing more ordinary citizens, including students, to carry guns to protect themselves. The problem with gun control is that only the bad guys will be carrying weapons because they'll buy them illegally.
Garry, Colorado Springs, Colorado
George Scicluna:
You may not like video games and television. That's your right. But there is no conclusive evidence that violent media causes violence in society. That's a fact.
On a side note, violent media is just as popular in almost all other countries in the free world but shootings like these are NOT common elsewhere. Sure, it has happened that a crazed person attacks innocents in countries like Germany or Finland but this is mainly an American problem.
Instead of flinging accusations around, maybe you should start with looking at what separates the US from other nations?
Owen, Malmo,
If this is not sufficient proof that there needs to be gun control in the USA then I dont know.
I live in Israel where, surprisingly enough, there is very strict gun control and there have never been incidents of this nature at Israel's schools and colleges.
Its taking democracy too far when ordinary citizens are able to walk into a gun shop and purchase as many weapons as they like.
Hopefully the Democrats will take a much firmer hand in this matter
Joe Charlaff
Jerusalem
Joe , Jerusalem, Israel
The NRA says "Gun control laws are not the solution".... what planet are these people on?
Cook, Reading,
It is not only sad but shocking to heard such tragic stories about students and teachers alike being slaughtered like cattle...my sympathy goes out to the family and friends of the victims, and i pray that courage illuminates those who are now in shock and probably fearing future lectures
Vanessa Kurz , siggiewi, Malta
Lots of misconceptions from foreigners here. 1. guns are banned in certain areas of the country 2. registration is widespread and there are federal, state and local background checks 3. concealed carry is also banned in some places, as in the unfortunate jurisdiction that this shooting happened 4. statistically in the USA, since widespread concealed carry has been made legal thru a strict set of standards, crime has fallen dramatically, criminals don't want to take the chance that just maybe you are armed & willing to defend your life 5. people in the UK can't own guns per se (shamefully even the UK Olympic Team must practice in another country!) but are victims of a rising tide of gun violence as are the Australians due to the fact that criminals don't care about the gun laws 6. "muskets" and modern firearms are equally as "dangerous" IF handled improperly, there is NO INHERENT danger in using a firearm unless you have criminal intent, firearms do not shoot without an operator
W. LaPierre, Washington, DC
hahaha. I totally agree with all the folks wanting MORE guns. It would have been sooo much better if like there had been twenty or thirty people in there all shooting at each other.
ST, Midwest, USA
My heart goes out to all these students' parents and families, but I agree with Adam Hunt that if the US government continues to placate the gun lobby, these horrific events are a matter of probability rather than possibility.
Robert Perry, "citizen carry" may be illegal, but this citizen, Stephen Kazmierczak and quite a few others seemed to be able to get hold of a terrifying range of weapons without any difficulty. Are you suggesting that everyone being armed at all times 'just in case' would make your country safer rather than making such incidents more alarmingly common than they already are? Sorry, but for most of us, including many Americans, the logic there is tenuous at best.
Ruth , Glasgow , Scotland
I feel I have to clarify a bit here. I was, in my earlier post, merely pointing out that possession of a weapon is a constitutional right in this country. I was neither claiming a position for or against that fact. Conspicuously ignored, however, was my MAIN point, the fact that other countries are just as, if not more, violent than this country, with or without guns. America does have its problems, of which this latest tragedy is surely a symptom. This was a bright young man who was well respected and well educated, why would someone like that do this? His having that gun and using it was merely a symptom of some serious underlying problem. Claiming that gun control is the answer is a bit like saying "I have the plague, but the real problem is these ugly black spots."
Ian, New York, USA
The neocons must have loved this story - hell, he was on drugs.
Only when they figure out he was on prescription drugs and legally held a weapon they can't scream blame towards the "liberals" for a change.
Every time one of these campus killings happens it's world news, no wonder they keep happening, best attention these kids ever get!
Peter Koy, London,
Just as a bit of perspective, having lived in Australia for over 90% of my life, the only rifles/automatic weapons I have seen are in the hands of soldiers for ceremonial use ie. marching up and down. I have never seen a police officer with one, and I have never seen a police officer with a drawn hand-gun. This includes security guards at airports and Parliament House. I assume they are there, but not carried around in normal use.
I only know of one person who has a rifle, and he's a farmer living on a farm.
In the UK over Christmas, I saw armed (ie. with automatic weapons and handguns) police at train stations and airports. And in Geneva there are armed soldiers at high-profile sites.
I pass no judgement on constitutions. Are there baddies out there with guns? No doubt! We're not perfect. But I will say it is nice to not see guns nor have to think about them.
aslsw, canberra, australia
Brad from Milwakee says that people “cause these types of acts – not guns�. He is correct. But it doesn’t seem to occur to Brad, and others, that with fewer guns it would be harder to commit these acts – or am I missing something here ?
Nick M, St Ouen, France
Guns laws hurt law abiding citizens. Criminals will find a way to get their guns just like they find a way to get their drugs. Drug laws have not stopped drug use, have they?
Doug, Boston, MA, USA
I've been reading all the posts regarding this latest tragedy and there are a couple of points that have been repeated time and again, both of which I find disturbing.
The first is that the solution to these shooting sprees is to relax the current laws to allow people to be armed in preparation to defend themselves. How can this improve the situation? Imagine how many more innocents would be caught in the cross-fire if people started firing back at the shooter...
Secondly, the vehemence with which (some) people defend their so-called right to bear arms, especially given the fact that the supreme court has repeatedly concluded that "Since the Second Amendment right "to keep and bear Arms" applies only to the right of the State to maintain a militia and not to the individual's right to bear arms, there can be no serious claim to any express constitutional right of an individual to possess a firearm."
Katie, London, UK
As an American, I must say I'm thoroughly disgusted with our government and their lack of gun laws. I even live in Texas and find that all automatics should definitely be outlawed and that most guns should be outlawed. Guns are only for killing and I don't find this to be any reason to sell or possess guns. The republicans in office get a huge paycheck from the gun associations (along with the tobacco companies) and there for why would they want law to lighten their pocketbooks?
I'm truly sorry for all the families who are affected by such terrible crimes and my prayers go out to them. It's time for this country to have a constitutional convention and revamp our laws. What worked in 1776 is not necessarily relevent for today.
Robin Castellanos, San Antonio, TX, USA
A violent country will reap what it has sown.
It is unfortunate that thevictims are not the instigators of the initial violence. My thoughts go to their families and friends.
Maybe, Armerica will strat to look at it's policies and realise that if you live by the sword, you die by the sword. All of the shooters hav egrown up in a country with violent video games, television, films and reality TV shows that teach us all to live for today.
The government has never stopped this rot because they are making too much money. They are motivated by greed and not love.
The powers that be will spend the next few days reciting scripted responses and they will be forgotten for more important duties such as wars in Iraq and Afganistan within moments.
MAybe the next President will have the strentgh to stand up for civil rights and not profit.
George Scicluna, Geraldton, Australia
This is half the reason these people carry out such shootings, they know their names will be all over the news and in their tiny minds they believe they will be remembered for ever .
How about the papers and associated press not publishing the names of these people who commit such crimes and instead concentrating on the victims and their families.
Nick Dixon, Sutton Coldfield, England
Laws that were passed hundreds of years ago are obviously going to become outdated and in need of change. The right to bear arms being the most apparent.
Adam Hunt, London, UK
I've ;ived in Chicago my entire life, spent 30 years in law enforcement with the Chicago Police Department. The vast majority of citizens here are NOT desensitized to violence. We live our lives, as most people and are abhorred when something like this occurs. One victim or thirty. Most of us value and treasure life. The availablity of firearms comes after the idea of violence is planted. Mentally disturbed, depressed, rejected...something in this man's head was environmentally disturbed. I wish we had an answer for that.
J. Edward Joyce, Chicago, IL, USA
Yes, the US and the world are now worse off when the Evil Right Wing Demons took of the US! You have it right!
Problem is, your pre-Right Wing Utopia was equally hellish and equally horrible.
Stop blaming current world leaders or the Constitution of the US. Place blame on the US Pop culture, the decaying US education system, and the lack of parenting in the US.
Kris Wiggs, Hughson, California, USA
Robert - what rubbish... the "god-given right of self-defense"?? I live in a country full of gun freaks and god freaks, where it is perfectly legal (and a "god-given" right after all) to be on prescription medication to control mental illness AND PURCHASE A GUN.
must. get. out.
Dianne, Boston, MA
"Aren't shootings like these a "normal" thing and a part of every-day life in America? After all, aren't guns are the good-old "American" way of settling disputes, venting out one's frustration or just having some fun?"
This post is in response to Jeremy's from India. NO. Shootings like these, no matter how frequent, are not normal. I live in America. I have a lot of friends and family. I don't even know anyone that owns a gun, except for a couple police officers. Let's not use this horrific tragedy as a means to bash America by making ignorant over-generalizations. YES, Amercia has many of its own problems and gun laws, in many citizens' eyes, are one of them. This is a time for sympathy and condolence not a time to politicize.
Steve, St. Louis, Missouri, USA
FACT: he broke the law by entering a "Gun Free Zone" with guns - would more or stiffer "guns" laws have stopped him?
I find it very interesting that the discussion goes directly to "guns" and not to the "person" who actually committed this act. Blame the NRA, blame the "gun lobby", but do not even think about blaming the "person" or why or how anyone could come to the conclusion that this type of act is the only or best solution to what was troubling him.
What about the drugs? What about a culture and education system that creates drug addicted children at age 5 in order to conform them to "their" ideal of behavior? Would this not be a better place to start laying blame? What about the "drug lobby" that push laws for causing our children to become addicted to their products?
GUNS are not the cause of these types of acts, PERSONS are thre cause of these types of acts. Removal of all the guns in the world would not have changed the reason why he did what he did.
Brad, Milwaukee, US
I love websites that screen posts!! Talk about putting your own spin on things. No respect for sites that do not promote free expression.
Steve, St. Louis, Missouri, USA
"The NRA and the gun corporations should lobby hard for subsidizing guns in America so that gun possession becomes a constitutional right of every citizen in every state." Gun ownership is a Constitutional right. It was awarded by the founding fathers in 1787. That is why it's so hard to get a handle on guns in the US. Congress is leary (scared) of introducing any laws which take away freedoms from Americans. Especially those freedoms offered in the Bill of Rights (first 10 ammedments to the US Constitution, of which the right to bare arms is one).
Brian, Philadelphia, USA
Jeremy, gun possession is the constitutional right of every citizen in every state.
Chris, Birmingham, AL
Isn't it disguisting that after so many tragic events the gun loby exists?
Ikoden, Bern, Switzerland
"To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them. " - - Richard Henry Lee
"Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - - George Washington
Steve Mucci, Saylorsburg,
As Ian & Robert have said, there is a constitutional right to gun ownership in the USA. What we effete Europeans fail to understand is - why?
What might have seemed reasonable when talking about muskets and getting rid of the British in the 18th century doesn't seem so reasonable when talking about automatic & semi-automatic weapons. It seems to us simpletons that modern guns are rather dangerous.
Still, Mr. Kazmierczak probably didn't smoke, that would have been really dangerous and unlike firearms is regarded as being bad for those people in physical proximity.
Nick M, St Ouen, France
As a foreigner, when you read comments like "Gun possesion IS a constitutional right in this country" you can agree when people say the United States is a real mess.
It is unfortunate because I believe the vast majority of most Americans are really good people, however, they are being manipulated by fear, and a right-wing / corporate agenda.
The right to arms is nothing more than constitutional propeganda that perpetuates the internal and external violence in the United States and abroad.
Seamus, Canmore, Canada
When one notes the amount of horrific crimes, such as the rampant recent school incidents committed with firearms, it shouldn't make one reflect on how the world would be safer if we all had firearms, or how well someone shoots. What this should do is produce a large amount of empathy (not vengeful thinking) for every one of the people and families involved in these incidents. When one tries to 'arm' oneself with this sort of awareness, one might then more readily acknowledge that stricter gun control and laws surrounding firearms doesn't portend any violation of the law or one's constitutional right; it does, however, make logical sense, and ostensibly will cut down on further firearm crimes.
Jacob Giesecke, Bowling Green, Kentucky
In an ideal civilized world we would like to dispense with the necessity of armed police and soldiers. But no one else should have access to guns or the right to bear them. That is pure nonsense to support commercial and violent ends. The easy access to weapons is absurd. Violence is not a way of life and any action to deter it should be taken.
Don Matley, Ottawa, Canada
Some might say congratulations to the NRA on their support of murderers in the USA and Canada, you have been victorious again! I think to most others the NRA might be considered a terrorist organization with all the deaths their support of indiscriminate gun ownership and use has caused.
My sincere sympathies to all of the victims (living as well as dead) and their familes. I think the survivors should sue the NRA, the gun companies and dealers for support and damages.
greg, toronto, canada
Another unfortunate American massacre.
I can't help but find myself becoming desensitised to all of these killings though. If the American government are going to continue to placate the gun lobby and not ban firearms then why are these events reported? It's naturally going to happen.
It's becoming an every day part of American life...
Adam Hunt, London, UK
The shootings, unfortunately, are seeming more "normal". However here in the US, not everyone has firearms. You really have to want one to go through the process of getting one. (registration, background checks, etc.)
Those that REALLY want a gun to harm others usually would not be bothered going through all the paperwork in the first place and get weapons illegally.
Even if there were no guns, people who want to do harm would come up with something else to inflict damage.
Laura, Chicago, IL
Gun possession IS a constitutional right in this country. Unfortunately this means that, occasionally, someone who is off balanced, or just plain evil, gets their hands on weapons that can cause ALOT of pain and destruction. Guns are NOT the "good-old American way of settling disputes," in fact the use of violence is no more prevalent here than in Britain or many other countries, or at least so say the statistics. Perhaps, instead of relying on movies and sensationalized news broadcasts, the rest of the world should actually come to America and take note of how most people don't walk down the street with a gun in their hand, shooting at errant children and single mothers. Those who do, just like those who stab a child at a bus stop in Britain or bomb a temple in India, are seriously disturbed and not the norm.
Ian, New York, USA
Jeremy, gun ownership is a Constitutional right in this country, one that backs the God-given right of self-defense. However, it is a crime to settle disputes with firepower here, just as it is in any civilized country.
What happened here is that his victims were disarmed by the command of both the state of Illinois (which does not permit citizen carry) and NIU. Can you say "sitting ducks"?
Robert Perry, Chaska, MN, USA
A near 43% hit rate with moving targets, not bad that. Maybe he should've gone to the front line in Iraq or Afghanistan.
I wonder how many gun lobbyists equip their kids with firearms, and how many of their kids have been victims of random shootings.
Carl, Baltimore, MD
When I lived in England, after about three months, I suddenly realized that, for that period, I hadn't seen a weapon -- anywhere. A bizarre -- if very safe-- feeling. One that, unfortunately, I don't expect to experience again living in America.
Karl Bridges, Burlington, VT
Having a gun for hunting is no excuse. Remove the means and you remove the threat.
Scott Millson, Toronto, Canada
Aren't shootings like these a "normal" thing and a part of every-day life in America? After all, aren't guns are the good-old "American" way of settling disputes, venting out one's frustration or just having some fun? The NRA and the gun manufacturers must be applauded for their untiring efforts in making *quality* firearms more accessible to more Americans for a safer and more secure America. The NRA and the gun corporations should lobby hard for subsidizing guns in America so that gun possession becomes a constitutional right of every citizen in every state.
Jeremy King, Bangalore, India
Comments
every american is not responsible for this act...it is this kind of thinking (generalizing groups of people) which causes tragedies like this. people look for someone to blame, then think that this or that group is responsible and fire randomly at innocent people. so don’t blame every american
ab, at 8:45 am EST on February 15, 2008
Why do the responses to such shootings never include increasing funding for mental health services to students?
Mary, at 9:20 am EST on February 15, 2008
What’s it going to take?
There are several campus security & police forces accross the nation who still utilize “unarmed” officers. When are they going to realized we don’t live in a fantasy world anymore. Why wait until a tragedy happens directly on their campus? Prepare the officers NOW to better prevent deadly encounters in the future. Equip & Train your officers, stop focusing on the $’s it will cost.
Scott, at 9:25 am EST on February 15, 2008
messed up
A lot of people are fucked up. The guy at VT was Korean and we don’t know the identity of this guy. Most people in Northern IL are American.
Edd, at 9:25 am EST on February 15, 2008
right respounce
hi-schools and universities should found Students Guard of voluntiers omong students to be trained tou use and carry weapons and react soon, — no other solution will suply feeling of safety to students. Pchichological profile of most of those killers will block them to stand a front of armed public.
dron, at 9:25 am EST on February 15, 2008
man who could take something so precious as life. its to bad that 7 people were cut so short.
Brendan, at 9:25 am EST on February 15, 2008
Exactly! This doesn’t just happen in the US! The comment of the first poster is completely irresponsible and ignorant. It’s sad to see someone make such sweeping generalizations. I would like to think that people who would read and post on this site would be capable of more intelligent thinking.
LAW, Ph.D. Candidate at Univ. Memphis, at 9:30 am EST on February 15, 2008
Murders at Northern Illinois
My prayers and condolences to those who lost loved ones in this tragedy. May God grant peace to those who perished, and to their survivors.
feudi pandola, at 9:45 am EST on February 15, 2008
target
The most disturbing (alleged) detail to come out of this was one witness’s report that the shooter specifically targeted the grad assistant who was teaching the class, before shooting randomly.
The grad assistant survived and later in the hospital said he didn’t know the shooter (indeed, they were apparently from different academic disciplines)
One wonders why this very successful student (the shooter) left NIU and why they felt the need to come back and shoot some random TA.
In addition to discussing mental health interventions, maybe we need to find out why this guy (apparently) targeted a fellow grad student out of apparently some bizarre angry rage, and maybe a closer look at grad students and teaching and financial pressures that might make an already crazy guy snap.
Just a hunch.
Donna, at 9:45 am EST on February 15, 2008
Guns in America
It is very obvious that something is very wrong with the control of guns in America. I am a strong advocate of the Second Amendement, but I also believe that the types of guns we permit to be legal lead directly to this kind of tragedy. Automatic and semi-automatic guns should not be legal for anyone but law enforcement officials. We need to either ban these guns or license ammunition. Period!
feudi pandola, at 9:45 am EST on February 15, 2008
Pressure
The times we live in put so much pressure on people, especially younger people. We expect them to constantly raise the bar that those before them set. As a society, if we could just focus on the well being of people, rather than their accomplishments or lack there of, I think there would be much less of these random acts of violence among young people. Pointing the finger at one issue or group is foolish, as a society we are all to blame.
J. Ham, Arch. Tech., at 10:45 am EST on February 15, 2008
Weapons
The issue is the gun culture is the States. The weapon that the gunperson used did not come from Mars.It was a tragedy for the families, my condolences to them.
Paulo, at 10:45 am EST on February 15, 2008
virginia tech alumni
As an alumni of Virginia Tech my heart aches for everyone who was touched by this terrible tragedy. No one knows how much this can unite a school and communtiy. Remember to stand toghether, support your school, and support each other. There is no way to make sense of this. Virginia Tech’s prayers and thoughts are with you.
Loni, at 10:45 am EST on February 15, 2008
as an American, I blame myself (a little)
We ALL devote our lives (directly or indirectly) to generating the revenue (taxes) and resources (technology) that power the world’s largest industrial killing operation (the D.O.D.) We then bestow our highest national esteem on the people who “serve” this leviathan.
Kids learn that mastery of violence leads to honor and fame. The myth is ubiquitous and constantly reinforced through the millions of bytes they gobble up daily.
What’s really, really fucked up is how this situation could be judged a “success” of any sort.
American, at 10:45 am EST on February 15, 2008
arming campus security/police officers is not the answer- guns don’t solve problems, they may only create more problems. Something like this tragedy wouldn’t have been solved by armed campus police!
kl, at 10:45 am EST on February 15, 2008
The Events of 2/14
It is so unfortunate to see the reponses that have come forward to this site after the unthinkable events of yesterday. I would state how proud I am of the NIU community and the young people who attend this wonderful institution. As surreal as the past 24 hours have been here in DeKalb, it is clear the that response system did work. The planning by the university’s leadership across the past months did prepare the campus for the unthinkable. Unfortunately the unthinkable is all too thinkable now.
Norman Stahl, Chair, Literacy Education at Northern Illinois University, at 10:45 am EST on February 15, 2008
Just sad
My heart goes out to all the families of those who are effected by this. Its a terrible tragedy and one more reason for the government to try to take our arms away from it.. Which is bull
Breanna, at 10:45 am EST on February 15, 2008
Very Disheartening
It is very sad that someone would do something so ruthless... So selfish.
Justin VerBurg, at 10:45 am EST on February 15, 2008
saddened
It saddens me to see yet another act of senseless fatality in our schools..I do not believe gun control is the answer as criminals are the ones who can get guns. But what are we teaching our young people who have this wonderful privilege of education? Higher education is wonderful but when we took prayer out of the schools, wwe did a grave injustice to our children. There was a moral compass that was silent but spoke to the hearts and lives of young people. You will the students praying now..We need to bring back the traits we once possessed..character and morality but most of all God in the schools..we are missing the very life of our society..this will not stop until America gets on their knees and returns to God..oh, there will always be people with mental problems and other issues but things would improve if people would turn to God — that would permeate every aspect of our society..I am not trying to trivialize the answer with religion..I am not talking about denominations..just a relationship with a Jesus Christ who cleanses and changes lives. America was different when it allowed Christians to pray. I pray for the families of these victims that God will comfort their hearts and lives throughout the coming days. He is only one that can do that. God Bless and help the students; I know they must be hurting..If they call on Jesus, he will help them..thank you..Jan
Jan Mayers, at 10:50 am EST on February 15, 2008
The Shooting
I live in Chicago and have grown immune to this type of news. All year long we have driveby shootings of little kids, high school violence and shootings. Recently there were college kids killed at LSU and U of C. Now that the violence has traveled Upward to the “safe” places like college campuses maybe some action will be done about guns. IMO they should be registered just like cars and dogs are.
But we live in a democratic republic and this is to be expected. We have freedoms and no one wants to shut down the freedoms or else we will turn into a police state. As long as we can understand that this is a free society, free to talk, walk, and do what you want including buying guns and killing, we have to accept the consequences.
Sally — Chicago, at 10:50 am EST on February 15, 2008
MOre Americans are killed by gun violence every year in our society, than are killed by foreign terrorists — and it doesn’t matter where you are — in churches, homes, streets, schools, universities, post offices, cars, and other places too numerous to name. Both Gun policy and mental health policy, as well as the general tolerance of violence in our society are to blame.
Marie Hoff, at 10:55 am EST on February 15, 2008
the U.S. exception
The U.S. does not have an exceptionally large number of kooks. ("They” are evenly distributed among all nations.)
What makes the U.S. exceptional is it’s archaic “right to bear arms".
These “tragedies” will subside only when sanity is brought to gun laws. ("Tragedies” are fated to occur. These massacres can be avoided.)
Robert, at 10:55 am EST on February 15, 2008
Agree to ban guns
I also don’t understand why the gun control in the US is so weak. I know this tradition didn’t come from Mars, but don’t all these shootings convince people to change that? US is not the most traditional country, and people here are more amenable to reason vs tradition than in other countries. And I’m surprised to read instead that to respond to the shootings students should have more guns to be able to protect themselves. Doesn’t it make sense that the more guns, the more victims as you never know who is holding the gun?
Natalia Forrat, at 11:15 am EST on February 15, 2008
I agree with Mary — there needs to be some discussion of mental health services for students in crisis.
Heather, at 11:15 am EST on February 15, 2008
My prayers are with all the families and students of NIU. As an alumna I cannot grasp that this could possibly happen at NIU.
Kasandra, at 11:15 am EST on February 15, 2008
shooter identified
Shooter was identified as Steven Kazmierczak according to recent reports by CNN.
anonymous, at 11:25 am EST on February 15, 2008
My Prayers and My Thoughts
....both are with the victims, their families, and the educational community.
More thoughts....
Why aren’t gun owners mandatorily screened for mental and/or relevant physical illness before they are allowed to buy guns (if, indeed, these guns were even purchased legally)?
Students are required to have health physicals before they enter institutions of higher learning. Shots, medical records, etc. are required. Why not mental health screening as well?
If a student comes to school without immunizations, he/she MUST get them in order to remain enrolled.
If a student comes to school with any kind of disease, he/she must have appropriate treatment, whatever that may be.
Why should the brain be treated any differently?
kgotthardt, at 11:35 am EST on February 15, 2008
I was going to Northern Illinois until just this semester. I had several classes in that lecture hall where the shooting occurred. It’s freaky to think about. I’m glad I got out. We had a threat just before the finals of last semester. I’m glad none of my friends were hurt.
Kyle Johnson, Kyle, at 11:35 am EST on February 15, 2008
These awful incidents are shocking but we have to take the responsibility for allowing the creation of a culture of extreme violence in movies, TV and the videogames that so many young people are spending much of their time playing. Our nation sadly is a major perpetrator of world-wide violence through our American militarism. With such examples of our own cultural willingness to deliver death In Iraq should we be surprised when the violence seeps in to the safe havens of high school and colleges? Gun control would be helpful but I would as soon be shot as chopped to pieces with a machete. Murderous people will find the means to do murder.
michael, at 11:35 am EST on February 15, 2008
only prevention=medical attention
Mary said: “Why do the responses to such shootings never include increasing funding for mental health services to students?”
Indeed, why not?! That is the ONLY way to effectively prevent this sort of thing from happening.
- NIU alumna
M, instructor at an Illinois community college, at 11:35 am EST on February 15, 2008
I agree that gun control is the issue, but it’s more complex than that. The counseling centers on university campuses these days are seeing unprecedented numbers of students with psychiatric disorders, including major depression, severe anxiety, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and the like. While some of these disorders may have a genetic basis, there is no doubt in my mind that most stem from the individual’s response to societal pressures and the state of the world in which we live. This is not a uniquely American phenomenon, but given the fact that these and other disorders are now so widespread, it behooves us to take a more serious look at the gun control laws in this country. Otherwise, we have no one to blame but ourselves!
gianstefano, at 11:35 am EST on February 15, 2008
mental health
The Chicago papers are now reporting more about the shooter: he was apparently a highly regarded grad student who studied the criminal justice system, but who had recently “gone off his medication” and had been acting erratically.
Donna, at 11:35 am EST on February 15, 2008
School Shootings
This event is tragic, my heart goes out to all the families affected by this. Students go to school to receive an education and instead receive a death sentence. I think an Internal Affairs department on campuses for students would benefit everyone.
A story of a coward with a gun.
Rick Flores, IT Helpdesk Support, at 12:05 pm EST on February 15, 2008
School Shootings
What if we were to have undercover students that are trained in unconventional warfare.If combat proficiency and WAR was embedded into these kids minds they would react more bravely when situations like this happen instead of fleeing the scene!!
Rick FloresU.S Navy ret.
Rick Flores, at 12:05 pm EST on February 15, 2008
Americans ruin ths world. I have sooooo many American friends, very dear close friends, and my deepest deepest sadness and condolences for the horrible pain the families of these dead innocent people. But look at what American Culture is promoting and doing to this world. Americans always so loud mouthed and indignant. Always the Policement of the world. Always Causing war, always in the name of Peace, but can’t even keep the peace in their own home land. Their own most proud of proud soilders, rape a 14year old. Pedo!!! They fuck up the economy and thus the world economy goes into panic. Wake up everyone...why do we all depend so heavily on this bullshit economy of loud mouth hypocrites. In the world where are the most Serial Kills, US, in the world who has the most gun related tragedies, US. Who funded the same people that later came back and crashed planes into their towners only to be called terrorist? US. They have fuck this world up. Let me say again before any one chooses to make any rebuke to my comments. Seriously everyone. open your eyes...I have very dearest of dearest friends that are american, but I dont see them that way, i see them as my friends and as good people. Its the country as a whole with its damn leaders and stupid over done DOGMA and corrupt ways forcing their culture on everyone else. And then look...in their own country cant even keep peace. Shooting themselves. Kids??? Kids shooting Kids?? Why? where it the family? TOO MUCH Freedom, not enough discipline. FREEDOM right! What happened to RESPECT??? YOU bunch of free loud mouth independent little cusses. Yeah US does a lot of great things, but then they ruin it all with stupid shit like this. Look around, how many other countries have weird shit like this? ONLY the US? why??? is this a culture we want to follow? AMERICANS...IS this a culture you are proud of??? Ever notice when you go overseas since the 90s no one really respected you? Why did Canandian sew Canadian Flags on their backpacks? To be separated from you guys. You like the unmannered neighbor that just walks into anyone;s house with shoes on puts your feet up on their tea table and then has the nerve to tell them how to run their house and educate their kids when back home your own kids shoot each other. HOW LAME!!!!
TAk, at 12:10 pm EST on February 15, 2008
Same experience
I knew a student just like the NIU suspect in 2003. Angry. Screamed and shoved others. Made me and others nervous. Administration did n-o-t-h-i-n-g. Then the student finally had a public breakdown and was banned from campus. Still haunted by that experience.
A friend’s wife is on the student-counseling team at a big Southern university. Since 4/16 (VT), they respond in person to allv
I don’t like handguns. But when you face potentially violent people, you do what you have to do.
Want to debate handguns? Meet you in a downtown crack-zone at 9 p.m. Saturday. In seconds, you’ll be reading “Guns & Ammo” and praying for U.S. Marine recruiters to walk by. Welcome to reality.
As for more funding for mental health — reasonable people know that is a bottomless pit. And given the U.S. is already technically bankrupt from unfunded social service entitlements — where is the money coming from?
NIU — many prayers for your people. Be safe.
Buzz, at 12:35 pm EST on February 15, 2008
I live in va and have to deal with the virginia tech shooting everyday so just keep ya head up if you lost a family member or friend
Katia, at 12:35 pm EST on February 15, 2008
As an American in England
I certainly wouldn’t blame all Americans, the activities of the defence department, etc for the events on college campuses.
But it is strange to think that the campuses in Europe are even more open, and we don’t even have a police force. The last time police were needed on my campus was 2 years ago to intervene in a fight with two people that were unaffiliated with the university.
Why is that?
What stinks is that the American institutions of higher education will now react with more costly training for police, restrictions, feel good programs, etc.
rml, at 12:45 pm EST on February 15, 2008
Correx due to wayward PC mouse
A friend’s wife is on the student-counseling team at a big Southern university. Since 4/16 (VT), they respond in person to all .. potential acts of violent student behavior.
(Note: aforementioned is stressful and costly. Obviously.)
Buzz, at 12:45 pm EST on February 15, 2008
Regarding TAk
Why is it that so many can be so damn shallow? How is it that the US is the only place that has this? The Brits have bad guys, they have shootings and it is almost impossible to get a firearm there. What about other countries, mass genocides, mass killings in the hundreds at a time. Do not blame it on our “Culture". If you are just looking for a place to piss and moan about the US in general, get in line and find another spot for it, please keep on the topic at hand. As far as Gun Control is concerned, that is the last answer and most wrong of all. Ill. is one of the most strict as it is in obtaining firearms. Making it tougher or preventing it outright is plain bull and will be ineffective at best, deadly at worst. The answer always comes down to, take the guns away, restrict them, whatever... I blame the restrictions on them as a partial cause in instances such as this. Mental defect or not, you will not find a person entering into a place that is known to have firearms present and try sh*t like this. The people that do things like this are predators, they look and see an easy opportunity to inflict the most they can in the shortest time they can. Allow “Right” people on campuses to possess and be armed so that if nothing else, there IS a chance to stop these actions or prevent them all together.I do agree 100% also with the couple of posts made earlier about how when things like this occur, the easy target is picked and focused on, only to have little to no results. Instead of attacking the rights of honest law abiding people, and attacking their right to not be subject to these and other malicious happenings, what about putting some of that cash and floor thumping towards what really matters and may make a difference, better mental investigations, some sort of a physical on the brain as people enter such stressful and crowded locations for such long periods of time.
TFG, at 12:55 pm EST on February 15, 2008
Warning signs
What is really needed is not armed students, nor gated campuses or metal detectors, etc. but more research into the warning signs that persons in mental trouble are likely to display(students, faculty, workers, officials, etc.)and in society as a whole. Then they might be referred to receive appropriate counseling and supervision. In my 40+ years a faculty member at N.I.U., I received several death threats across the years and encountered any number of deeply troubled students whom I then referred to counseling or tried to counsel myself, but it would have been useful to know of the warning signs of potential violence.Dr. C. Larson, Emeritus Professor of Communication, No. Ill. Univ.
Dr. Charles U. Larson, Emeritus Professor of Communication at Northern Illinois University, at 1:20 pm EST on February 15, 2008
to buzz
“Stressful and costly” is also an accurate description of the state of a university that does not provide adequate mental health to its students. Instead, however, the cost is in human lives.
As a side note, I too encountered someone at NIU, on a regular basis, who was obviously dangerous and in need of mental health attention. He followed a friend of mine home one day (a mile from campus) and threatened to blow up our apartment building. NIU also did n-o-t-h-i-n-g about him.
That was the 90s; for all I know it’s the same guy.
M, instructor at an Illinois community college, at 1:25 pm EST on February 15, 2008
Most of the time the people who do the shootings are looking for revenge and they want people to know that they finaly got their revenge. So why not just give a profile of the shooter when it is broad casted on every news station in America? Instead of giving them what they want and posting their name and picture on every television station and website. I feel like in a twisted way the media makes the people who commit these hideous crimes famous! All this dose it put the idea in some other twisted mind. That if they were to go out and do the same thing, the whole world would know their name and what they went down in history for doing.
Christy, at 1:45 pm EST on February 15, 2008
This does not happen just at colleges. There was a incident recently at a mall in the Chicago area where shoppers were shot. This was just one of similar occurances in many places, not just schools. Turning campuses into police states will not fix it.
Broader Perspective, at 2:25 pm EST on February 15, 2008
To Mary:
“Why do the responses to such shootings never include increasing funding for mental health services to students?”
Could it possibly be because there’s absolutely no evidence that mental health services are the slightest bit efficacious in ameliorating even minor mental health problems, let alone something major like this?
Tired Adjunct, at 2:30 pm EST on February 15, 2008
Mental Illness
I have a sister who suffers from Schizophrenia. I have a degree in Psychology and have worked for various social service agencies.
Here is the truth!
Americans spend more money on more bullshit items than on mental health research, education and treatment. Americans spend more on video games and pet food than on advancing our understanding of all forms and causes of mental illness.
Here are some observations:
1. as a field of medical study mental health gets less funding than any other medical field including wart removal and breast implants.
2. if mental health is a “bottomless pit” Buzz, you better hope your mom or sister don’t develop a mental illness. If we don’t want it to be a “bottomless pit” it won’t be with a little care, committment and the same funding that everyone else gets.
3. if you think turnover is high among any service career that you can think of, it is higher still among the vastly underpaid, understaffed, underfunded health care professionals, most of whom do tremendous work.
4. it is time to revisit the Pennhurst decision. It was once a high aspiration to see every hospitalized inpatient of a psychiatric hospital “deinstitutionalized". However, because of the lack of funding, pushing the mentally ill out into the streets when they are not ready and when they would at least be safer and warmer in a hospital is a bankrupt and failed policy.
5. Mental illness is not that “thing” that only happens to other people. Your turn may be coming what with all of the stress, environmental polution, mixing of prescriptions, nutritional defecits and “recreational” drug use.
6. Hope and pray that it does not happen to you because to be branded as such with the ignorance of the US population on the subject, the only thing worse would be to be branded a pedo, and most will argue that they are a subset of the mentally ill.
More guns won’t help. More police won’t help. Better training might help. By it’s nature the behavior of the mentally ill is unpredictable. Nothing short of the thought police will prevent it, and then we will all have a new problem.
Szasz, at 3:20 pm EST on February 15, 2008
Mental health
It seems some of our foreign “friends” who posted here are in need of some mental health services themselves.
See who comes to their aid first when a natural disaster hits. Then they turn around and spit on us.
As for mental health services, I used to work as a nurse. There’s no way you can FORCE someone to take medication. This person was diagnosed and under treatment, but he exercised his free will to refuse treatment. So what do you do then? Lock him up and drug him into taking his meds?
As to why this happens: well, hey, if you remove all moral underpinnings from a culture then what do you expect?
EngProf, at 3:25 pm EST on February 15, 2008
It surprises me that so few of the comments mention our gun culture as the problem. The NRA mantra “guns don’t kill, people do” is ridiculous. Any mentally unstable individual could not kill/injure so many with a knife, ax, baseball bat, whatever. It’s up to the youth to press for gun control (as you do for the environment) and save future generations from such senseless tragedies.
Caroline, at 3:40 pm EST on February 15, 2008
As someone who is a client of mental health services, I can assure you that they can and do work if you have access to them. Perhaps this fellow “went off his meds” because he lacked health insurance and prescription coverage?
Heather, at 4:30 pm EST on February 15, 2008
To try and point a finger at any one issue like gun control that could be solely responsible for this tragedy is just shortsighted. Stricter gun control will have no more of a positive effect on the number of these instances than any drug laws have on the number of addicts in our country. I think the comment about our society putting too much pressure on the youth to accomplish is totally accurate. Being a college student myself, trying to juggle the overwhelming amounts of schoolwork with figuring out how to pay for it all, I can see where it would send any unstable person over the deep end. That is why I also agree with those advocating more opportunities for counseling to those who may be mentally unstable. My prayers go out to the families of those who were lost and I hope that, as a society, we can find a way to limit these types of tragedies.
Steve, at 4:35 pm EST on February 15, 2008
RICH!!???!!???
Your not American? Nice racist statment pal. Generalizations and such like you provided will always bog down the rise of no racism in this country. See people as individuals.
Ryan, at 4:40 pm EST on February 15, 2008
Still a bottomless pit
” .. if mental health is a “bottomless pit” Buzz, you better hope your mom or sister don’t develop a mental illness ..”
Every day, moi hears at least 250 claims that the world will end if I don’t give more money for (insert cause).
There is absolutely NO conclusive empirical evidence that increased funding for mental health services will improve the human condition.
I had a loved one committed to Betty Ford. Chewed up enough money to pay for a Harvard B.A. degree. Ending was happy, but had not been guaranteed. I didn’t ask anyone else to help. I did it myself.
Moi does what moi can. Everything else is left to God.
Buzz, at 5:00 pm EST on February 15, 2008
Media should REFRAIN from publicizing details on shooter.
One of the most important things the media can do to help prevent these murder-suicides is to simply NOT publicize ANYTHING about the shooter!
Certainly not his photo, not the contents of any letter or website, nor his manifesto, ideally not even his name.
Publicity only encourages other similarly in humane humans who have given up on any other way to “make a name” for themselves.
Research should be funded to prove or disprove the above.
Michael Alston, Dr. at IEEE, at 5:30 pm EST on February 15, 2008
hmmm....
So, you admit that mental health services work...but it’s too expensive to be worth it? Your position is completely mystifying. Do you not see the connection being drawn between others’ mental health and YOUR safety?
M, instructor at an Illinois community college, at 9:30 pm EST on February 15, 2008
Try reading with the mind open
” .. So, you admit that mental health services work ..”
Try reading with the mind open. It helps, if done properly.
” .. Ending was happy, but had not been guaranteed ..”
Don’t know why my friend didn’t kill himself and others. Could have been any one or combination of 1,000,000,000,000,000 v’bles.
Or just luck of the draw. Or a strong group of supportive family and friends.
It was certainly NOT due to a taxpayer-funded program, a “village” of bureaucrats.
Anyone who wants to donate their money to try prevent the next NIU — step forward. I’m sure someone will take your money.
Buzz, at 8:10 am EST on February 16, 2008
It is our responsibility as citizens of the United States to be aware of our surroundings and those in it. I found an angry kid in my class and I have helped him out by talking about whatever is on his mind. He confessed a hit list to me. I helped him get rid of it.
Jennifer Mumphry, at 8:15 am EST on February 16, 2008
Jennifer: yes
” .. I found an angry kid in my class and I have helped him out by talking about whatever is on his mind ..”
Same experience. Student seething with anger over the lack of concern and interest by the long-tenured unionized faculty.
We had a private, high-volume discussion about student needs. I pointed out positive strengths and areas to work on, possibly the first professor to ever do that. Student was 95% calmer afterward.
All my student wanted was for someone to actually listen, to care, and to act. It isn’t that hard or complicated.
Buzz, at 9:30 am EST on February 16, 2008
Gun-free zone?
Reading through the comments, I don’t see a single mention of the fact that this is yet another mass killing in a “gun-free zone.” This serves as an effective deterrent for the average citizen who might carry a weapon for defense, but not for a murderer whose intent goes far beyond illegal possession charges. What did NIU tell its students, faculty and staff to do after the Virginia Tech massacre? At my university, the response was to post bulletins saying that we should acquiesce to the demands of armed and disturbed individuals. If everyone else is unarmed, it seems like we’ll have no realistic choice but to comply — even all they want is for us to die.
UT-Austin Grad Student, at 10:00 pm EST on February 16, 2008
Medicate.. Medicate
Not only are they all going on in gun-free zones, the other common theme is that they’re all on or coming off these anti-depressant drugs. Just try talking to a doctor these days. Problems sleeping? Depression. Stomach pain? Depression. Suddenly we have three times the depression rate of other developed countries. Either we’re overmedicating, everyone else is undermedicating, or Americans are crazy. Its probably worth it to figure out which one it is.
John, at 6:05 am EST on February 17, 2008
they call it gun control. Why don’t the idiots in the government realize how stupid and impressionable people are from video games, movies and other media. Now i love that violent crap, but some people take it seriously, and their douchebags, so they shouldnt be allowed near guns either. If it’s available people use anything. Because their dumb.
Jay, retards, at 8:45 am EST on February 17, 2008
“moral underpinnings” Prof.?
“Moral underpinnings” Professor? Would that the solution were that simple. If people are born brain damaged,physically traumatized by accidents or injuries,or by ingesting or exposure to lead or drugs and alcohol they may be capable only of irrational thought and behavior unless taking the correct psychotropic medication. Many if not most criminals are not just “antisocial” personalities but in fact brain damaged. Autoposies of these damaged or diseased brains need to be performed and studied. Brain scans need to be included in our annual checkups. Preventative healthcare is the key to fewer such tragedies. My cousin’s grandchildren attended a school in Dunblane,Scotland in 1996 where a deranged shooter killed innocents.
JA, Substitute teacher(K-12)public school, at 3:05 pm EST on February 17, 2008
I work in a French University, and I can tell you that this kind of drama is unthinkable here. The police is not allowed on campuses, unless explicitly called for by the ‘President’ of the University (a very rare occurrence). The University has no police force of its own, either. Yet the campus is completely open, there’s the usual percentage of deranged people around, perhaps a little more than average, but nobody carries weapons (as far as I now) and in any case no one ever gets killed.I wonder how so many americans still desperately cling to the archaic notion that anybody shoud be entitled to have a gun. I don’t see that carrying a weapon makes you free in any way. Quite the reverse, actually.
AB, at 4:25 pm EST on February 17, 2008
Enlightened Discussion
TAk,"Americans ruin ths world", what a wonderful opening to your views of the NIU catastrophe given the venue, “Inside Higher Education". What a great way to stoke the furnace of intellect and reason; you have really communicated something of value! Rather than hop on the bandwagon of everything is wrong with America (including the right to bear arms), should we closer examine this tragedy in a “gun-free zone” for what it is? Let’s open the discussion to something like questioning the reasoning behind saying, “he’s just a swell guy as long as he’s taking his medication". Let’s wonder why no one discovered a military discharge on psychological grounds while doing a State Police background check to get his FOID card, buy handguns, shotguns or ammunition, or apply to graduate school much less. Let’s wonder why in the past 6-months, he decided to get a tattoo of the doll from a sick movie, “Saw", riding a tricycle through a pool of blood on one arm and a dagger through a skull on the other arm. Let’s wonder why no one bothered to approach family, advisors, administrators or friends and ask if there may be something wrong with a person who does these things. Why? Because we are too busy being so intellectually sophisticated accepting people’s “diverse opinions and expressions” and protecting their “personal rights of privacy and expression” that we expense the safety of the collective. Folks, wake up! There are people in all parts of the world that need help. Believing that a gentle little blue pill can make them become pillars of a demanding world is just horse hockey! Believing that countercultural expressions indelibly inked on their bodies are nothing more than innocent “freedoms of expression” that we should accept, admire and embrace as we would good dental hygiene is just lunacy. The army of administrators in education and the larger army of attorneys behind them who have made FERPA become the legal minefield that it has become should be questioned about some of these findings at NIU, Virginia Tech, or the next setting of such horror. But TAk, it’s easier just to say that “Americans ruin ths world”.
Kevin, Lecturer at The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, at 4:25 pm EST on February 17, 2008
Kevin, I agree with much of what you are saying. FERPA is WAY out of control—too many times, it works against the ill and everyone else instead of protecting us as it was meant to. The problem is, of course, that once information is made available, we can’t trust people to act in the best interest of the patients or their families. But again, you are right. How could this guy have gone through so many agencies, public venues, and the purchasing of multiple guns without having serious illness detected and communicated? (The tats, I could easily ignore. But these other things? No way.)
In terms of a gentle little pill as cure-all, I again agree. While medication can be effective, if not used in conjunction with solid M.D. oversight, therapy, and supportive social networks (all of which, YES, do require open exchange of accurate information), then it’s as good as putting a band-aid on a scratch, hoping to cure internal bleeding.
Until we can talk about mental health the same way we talk about skin cancer, no one will be able to help anyone. But the shame factor, the fear factor, the ignorance, the prejudice, and a general denial perpetuate tragedies like these. When will we learn?
kgotthardt, at 8:15 pm EST on February 17, 2008
I got two words for y`all.. “Gun Control"...
Borat, at 8:20 am EST on February 18, 2008
We Cannot Blow Students OFF
So many great comments. Many want to hear themselves talk about thier great and wonderful gun control ideas and others want therapists outside of every restroom. This fella “Steve” had this on his mind for awhile. There is so much impetus for a student to go this route and many times we don’t find them credible to do such a thing. The price of a BA is through the roof. Students can leave thier college days behind with fond memories and a future of SUBSTANTIAL DEBT. Does it seem rational that a student with a four year degree have indebtedness in excess of $60k? How about $30k having an interest rate of 9-13%. Oh- we forgot about that part. So, in other words — it’s okay when it costs a couple of hundred dollars to sit in the seat of a University classroom; that in and of itself is not going to cause a synaptic challenge?I am going to suggest that having an armed Marshall in every class could possibly constitute the EXORBITANT TICKET PRICE. Until you are a student with the kind of debt that students are facing with a 4 year, than I suggest you do not know what constitutes irrational behaviour. It is the very last thing we talk about though, the debt.
Oh and France- Who invited you? We both know we have nothing in common.
We better do something. A lowly student may not pack the punch that a tenured professor has, but at some point it should be realized that they deserve the same respect. We are faced with another battle for Higher Education. In my mind there is no battle more worthwhile, but the warriors better decide thier postitions quick.
CONCERNED, at 11:35 am EST on February 18, 2008
Concerned
This is another tragedy which has impacted so many people, whether it be directly or indirectly. I understand people want to point blame to someone or something, but I guarantee you that taking away one of our 2nd Ammendment Rights is not the answer. If any of you have done any research on “Gun Control” in cities in the US or even in other countries, you would agree with me. Other countries which have banned guns have an a significant increase in home invasions and murders. And the homeowners lose all rights to take action against these invaders. We as Americans lose all of our protection and rights if we are invaded in our own homes if the US Government decided to take away our right to bear arms. I think that the 2nd Ammendment was established for very good reasons. I would agree that the processes which allow people to get access to guns needs revised, or a mental health check, but you still won’t catch all of these crazy selfish people. Lord have mercy on their souls.
Kelly, at 1:05 pm EST on February 19, 2008
Rick Flores-US Navy ret
What if we were to have undercover students that are trained in unconventional warfare.If combat proficiency and WAR was embedded into these kids minds they would react more bravely when situations like this happen instead of fleeing the scene!!
Thanks Rick. I was thinking an undercover Marshall, but the training students could recieve from such an endeavor would be fantastic. Problem is the liberal mind unleashed. You know- ’someone might get hurt.’Thank you sir for your service and your comments.
CONCERNED, at 2:25 pm EST on February 19, 2008
Medication without Therapy is a recipe for Disaster!
Many mental health problems are not solved with a pill, they require psychotherapy. It is true that chemical imbalances affect the way the brain works, and medication “help” getting people back in “balance"....while their medicated. However, cognitive behavioral therapy (and other therapies) also change the chemistry of the brain.
It’s like this, the medication works, but it’s a bandaid...nothing else. Therapy heals. If you do medication without therapy...when you take off the bandaid...you will eventually end up worse.
Problems with therapy: Deluted services proved by unprepaired providers!!! Most states have granted “counseling” or “therapy” rights to people who have not completed proper training, simple because they have strong lobbying with state regulators. I’ve even had registered nurses (not holding any degree) tell me they function as therapist?
For real therapy...you must go to a CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST. You would not go to a medical assistant to perform heart surgery? Why would you go to nurse for psychotherapy?
MK, at 2:00 pm EST on February 20, 2008
I am a student at a major university like Northern Illinois and VA Tech. Many are commenting on getting mental health problems solved and increasing funds for the students... the truth be it... most universities have amazing programs for things like that. I know that my school has up to like 15-20 visits with a psychologist and most perscription medicines are free by the coverage of our health fee... with this said... the real problem is one being able to realize that he needs help and just get the guts, courage, or motivation to see someone about his or her problems. I have been getting anxiety attacks and am going through major stress but to be honest... its hard for me to even get up to go see someone to fix my problem.my thoughts and prayers go out the school and the familes. i can only hope that those troubled will get up and go see someone.
Kay, Kay at GAtech, at 9:50 pm EST on February 20, 2008
College campuses
ae college campuses even safe anymore no beacuase you pay money to send your kids to get an higher education and they get killed or engerd because of someone else’s behavior
Johnnisha Williams, at 5:15 pm EST on February 27, 2008
I am sure that the person was probably picked on and he had no other way in taking the anger out. I am not sayin that he had the right but i am sayin that is why you should treat others the same way u would want to be treated. God has a plan on why this happened and he will make something good come out of it.
Millard Robinson, at 4:10 pm EST on February 28, 2008
americans are fucked up
rich, at 8:05 am EST on February 15, 2008